"A warm heavy bowl/ comfortable as an old friend --/ not fine, smooth china." |
Today, we are visiting with Mark Reibstein, who wrote one of my favorite poetic picture books, WABI SABI.
Find the book on Amazon. |
Wabi Sabi is a cultural concept with roots in Japan. One of the simplest definitions I could find is this: wabi sabi is the art of finding beauty in imperfection.
It is not the same thing as wasabi, the hot green mustard served with sushi and memorable guest star on Annoying Orange.
One of the reasons that I love WABI SABI, aside from the gorgeous artwork and lovely poetry, is what the book says, subtly, about labels.
Wabi Sabi is a little cat who goes on a quest to learn the meaning of her name. One of the things she finds out on her journey is that labels [smart, pretty, mean, dirty, poor, kind] are never complex enough to capture the essence of a place, a thing, or a especially a person.
Here are Five Questions for Mark Reibstein:
1.
Hi, Mark. How did you learn about wabi sabi? Explain why the topic was a good fit for a children’s picture book.
When
I was living in Kyoto, I met another American, and she was studying tea ceremony. She told me that in her training, everyone always talked
about whether things were wabi sabi or not, and she tried to explain
this sophisticated idea -- kind of like a sense of nature, in things --
or more specifically, a wistful appreciation for something as beautiful,
due to its aging and imperfection. On the one hand, this sounded
paradoxical and complex. On the other hand, I thought I had always had a
sense of something very close to that all my life, if not exactly it.
I was intrigued and began asking all of my English language students --
Japanese doctors, housewives, business men and women, students, etc. --
what wabi sabi was. They all began, "That's hard to explain," and then
they gave me something -- a haiku, a story, an explanation -- and these
responses became the book.
Because wabi sabi is an aesthetic concept, I
felt it needed visual expression to be complete, and I was interested
in what an artist could add to my story. The story came to me simply
(perhaps because I had gotten a cat and named her Wabi Sabi), and Ed
Young's pictures have such wonderful tactile appeal, so that I am told
there are even two-year-olds who want this book read to them every
night, even as the book seeks to appeal philosophically to the adults
doing the reading.
I feel as though we succeeded in expressing that
feeling which I've had my whole life, even if we may not have done
justice to the whole of wabi sabi's esoteric background in Japanese
culture. In a way, the paradox of expressing a complex sensibility in a
children's book is itself an attempt to
achieve wabi sabi elegance, as both Ed and I were trying to capture the
beauty of simplicity.
2.
Names can be a powerful force in children’s lives – knowing the story of
one’s name, having a nickname, sharing a name with a family member. How
did you connect a cat’s search for the meaning of her name with the
process of understanding wabi sabi?
When
the Japanese people would repeat, "That's hard to explain," I always
wondered if they were really telling me, "You're not Japanese -- you'll
never get something so central to our culture." I related, therefore,
to the cat's journey because I was living in Japan purely out of the
love-inspired curiosity I had developed for the culture -- so in that sense, Wabi the cat's and my own
journey were outward ones.
But just as I felt wabi sabi was something I
had always known, my trying to understand it was an was inward journey,
too -- relating to my own identity. In fact, all my fascination with
Japan came from that feeling of connection to something there, embodied
in the aesthetics. It was different from what I'd grown up with in
America, yet it spoke to me. Wabi
Sabi's humble revelation, when she comes to understand her name well
enough to return home satisfied, was my own experience of living in
Japan for two years, journeying outwardly and inwardly, sensing and
finding connections. Perhaps it was also the journey of the real Wabi
Sabi, who was missing for about a week once (we don't know that it's not a true story!)
3.
Why did you decide on this form – some prose, some haiku? I’m curious as
to whether you think of the book as an extended haibun poem.
Yes,
haibun was a great discovery. Basho used that form for his travel
journals, with haiku representing moments of heightened awareness, so
the form is perfect for Wabi's philosophical and physical journey.
"The cat's tail twitching/ she watches her master, still/ waiting in silence." |
I
originally had only the one famous frog-in-the-pond Basho haiku in the
story, but Ed Young's first reaction to my text was to ask me to send
him the ideogram for "haiku." I didn't know why, but a light went off
for me: "Haiku! Simple elegance!" and I wrote a draft that was all
haiku. An editor suggested I go back to the original form, but then I
tried haibun, and the same editor agreed that the perfect balance had
been struck.
4. Tell us how
you felt when you first saw the artwork for the book. It is amazingly tactile. Do you have a favorite spread?
I
had intended my text to be an invitation for an artist to realize my
concept, but also his/her own, and it was deeply satisfying to see Ed
Young do both with such breathtaking elegance. I love the image
of Kosho, the monkey, offering tea to Wabi Sabi. He appears to be
coming out of the tree -- a stunning realization of my own subtle
suggestion of that, in the text.
Mosho is a macaque. (www.animalphotos.info) |
The gentle power of Kosho's gaze is
something I recognized in Ed Young himself, but there's also an
intensity of emotion there, going beyond the colorful, skillful ease
already there in his first set of pictures (which never made it to
press). That image captures what I think we were both offering readers
in this book -- something of value, something of depth.
5.
What have you learned from writing haiku/haibun and writing about
Japanese culture that you have taken into your writing practice? (By the
way, I love how the book’s non-traditional layout -- it opens so the pages spread from top to bottom -- immediately breaks
English readers out of our cultural expectations.)
The
non-traditional layout was Ed's idea. In fact, he was talked down by
the publisher from even more ambitious (and costly) designs!
I insisted
on the Japanese text in the book -- the inclusion of classic haiku and
the involvement of a Japanese haiku scholar. It always struck me as
strange, when I was in Japan, that there was English written on
everything. Japanese seemed to me to be the far more beautiful language,
graphically -- I thought things should be vice-versa, with hiragana or
katakana decorating our goods! But what I really wanted was for
this book to be in dialogue with Japanese culture -- a Westerner
reacting to it, trying an idea on for size, playing with it -- maybe
creating something new.
Hiragana table from Wikipedia. |
As a Chinese-American who grew up in China, Ed
brings his own sensibility, where East meets West. Some Japanese have
reacted to our book on wabi sabi as an American might to foreigners
writing about Thanksgiving -- but our intentions were more about
engagement than definitive explanation, and many Japanese have
appreciated that and the book. Many Westerners like how the book opens
up a new way (for us) to understand beauty. No feedback pleases me more
than hearing about people who, after reading the book, do what my
friend, the student of tea ceremony in Kyoto, did: they find wabi sabi
everywhere -- using a new name for something they knew was there all
along.
Mark Reibstein is an English teacher in California. |
Thanks for the great conversation, Mark! I want to thank author and artist Christy Hale for introducing us.
Today's Poetry Friday host is Renee at No Water River. Thanks for doing the poetry post round-up, Renee!
Oh wow, this is such a treat, Laura. I learned about Wabi Sabi through the beautiful Corinne Robson from Paper Tigers and I have fallen in love with both the concept, the artwork, and the narrative. Thank you for sharing the 'behind the scenes' with us through this lovely interview.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE this book, and as Myra said, it's a real treat to learn more about its author and backstory! I've always thought Ed Young's art was perfect for the text - there's definitely a synergy there making such a subtle concept come alive. Thanks to both of you for sharing!
ReplyDeleteHi, Myra and Robyn. It is such a beautiful book. I'm glad you both enjoyed the interview. I was really fascinated to learn the story behind the story, how Mark came up with the concept.
ReplyDeleteWhat a lovely interview! And the book- well, I'll keep my comments brief- I"m rushing out to get it!
ReplyDeleteWhat a lovely interview! And the book- well, I'll keep my comments brief- I"m rushing out to get it!
ReplyDeleteOh, thank you - what a joy this interview is. Yes, as Myra says, Wabi Sabi is a great favorite of all of us at PaperTigers! I LOVE everything about it, and I am also grateful to Mark for how my younger son, who is a big fan of all things Japanese, has assimilated the concept of Wabi Sabi via the book - just like Mark says, he finds it in lots of things around him and in a sense it gives him a deeper appreciation of what could so easily be overlooked. I love Ed's artwork too - and the story of the two different sets of artwork is amazing - Alvina Ling wrote about it here - http://bluerosegirls.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/publication-story-of-wabi-sabi-part-one.html and Ed Young spoke about the book in my interview with him last year - http://www.papertigers.org/interviews/archived_interviews/eyoung.html I've really enjoyed reading about Mark's journey to creating the book. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Iza and Marjorie. Marjorie -- I'm going to save those links for this weekend so I can savor reading the posts!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Laura. Great interview!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Holly. High praise, coming from you!
ReplyDeleteLaura and Mark, thanks so much for this! I feel a kinship with anyone who embraces another culture out of the love of his heart... we need more books like this one.
ReplyDeleteLong, long day, but wanted to stop in & here I found a wonderful poetry picture book that I didn't know about. What a lovely concept, "beauty, but with imperfection". Thanks Laura!
ReplyDeleteSorry, I have to keep this quick so I can go buy Wabi Sabi immediately!
ReplyDeleteIrene, I agree. One thing I love about this book is that the cultural lessons are a natural part of the story, the way children learn best.
ReplyDeleteLinda -- you will love this book. It's a treasure.
Thank you so much for this fascinating post and interview, and for introducing me to Wabi Sabi. I am in love and putting it on my list! :)
ReplyDeleteSeems like I am not alone in feeling that I must rush out and buy this book immediately! Thank you for this lovely interview.
ReplyDeleteRenee and Cathy, you are in for a treat. (Cathy -- we were both thinking tea this week!)
ReplyDeleteAs you can tell from the interview, Mark is a very thoughtful person and his book reflects that in the gentlest way. It's truly lovely.
Thank you, thank you for this interview. I, too, have an affinity for Japan and its culture. I loved reading the author's story of how Wabi Sabi came to be. I've meant to find this book for a long time - now I will do it!
ReplyDeleteGreat interview. I love your book so much... it sits next to my desk and I look at it everyday! I have also written about Wabi Sabi -- how to use it in your relationship -- check out 2 cool videos on it here: http://www.wabisabilove.com/press/video/
ReplyDeleteHi, Joyce. Japanese culture is embedded in this book, but not as a "lesson." It's just a natural part of the story, which I find very beautiful.
ReplyDeleteArielle, I'm glad you found the interview! Thanks for sharing the video clips.